Science, Art, Litt, Science based Art & Science Communication
Has art ever in its entire history helped in getting sweeping changes in the world?
Has art ever in its entire history helped in getting sweeping changes in the world?
Recently I came across a few artists who say art cannot save lives like science does but can bring changes in the society. Has this ever happened in arts' history? If it has in what way? Please let me know. I tried to Google the question but didn't get any answers!
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steven Faivus on
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I heard neurologists are finding evidence that music and speech developed together. I loved Werner Herzog movie Cave of Forgotten Dreams that shows a beautiful art museum created over 35 thousand years ago. Seems like arts created society, then we forget and loose our way through he abstraction of money. Sorry if my response is cryptic...
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Permalink Reply by John Chalmers on
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The book, "Uncle Tom's Cabin" has sometimes been credited with starting the American Civil War and ending slavery. Norman Rockwell's paintings of the Four Freedoms were used to boost American morale during WWII and the fight against Naziism, Fascism and Japanese Militarism.
Foreign envoys in Byzantium were often converted and overwhelmed emotionally by being taken to church services in Hagia Sophia where they were exposed to stunning mosaic art, massed choral music, sumptuous costumes, etc.
Soviet Agit-Prop troupes using graphic art, street theatre, etc. were used to build support for the Bolsheviks following the Russian Revolution. Art as propaganda has been used by many regimes.
I realize I'm using a very flexible and inclusive definition of art.
One often speculates that if Hitler had been accepted to Art School, the 3rd Reich, WWII, and the Holocaust might not have happened.
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa on
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Thanks for the replies. It really is interesting to know how art can bring in changes in the societies it thrives in. Yes, some social reformers here too have written books that has impact in the society here. Some movies done before I was born too were credited with bringing in changes earlier. But now I don't see any changes brought about by modern day art. The societies we live in have really changed to undermine the impact of art.
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But now I don't see any changes brought about by modern day art. The societies we live in have really changed to undermine the impact of art.
Or has art changed? Some might argue that contemporary music, at least since WWII has changed.
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Yes, art too has changed!
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Some Replies given on other networks :
Carol Goldberg:
Thank you for posing this question. I am sure it will evoke many answers.In my opinion Art does not change societies. Rather it reflects what is happening in societies.
One of the aspects of Art if you are trying to defining it, is that it is one of the effluences of a culture. It describes and elucidates rather than changing the culture. Carol Goldberg-Goldberg.John Barber:
I agree with Carol in that Art is not an agent of change but a mirror reflection of the society that created it. One of my Art History Professors was asked how you can determine what is Great Art and what is not? He said " wait 200 years and it will become evident". This is difficult for artists because we live in a culture that demands that we be proactive in every aspect of our lives. I think that true Art is nonjudgmental in nature, I also think that in the heat of the moment that it is difficult to tell what is Art and what is a publicity stunt. Give it time and give it distance, it will sort itself out.
Franck R:
Excuse me…Art only REFLECTING change? Sorry folks, but in my opinion this interpretation is much too narrow.
Art is not THAT passive…..on the contrary: since the dawn of human civilization the creative act of producing art has undoubtedly been transformative in many aspects (not only societal ones).
You don’t necessarily have to be a cultural historian or an anthropologist like Francis A. J. Ianni (as stated in his “The Arts as Agents for Social Change: An Anthropologist's View”) to get that Art IS change!One should never forget that Google is not the Oracle of Delphi, but if anyone is looking for some answers, then for starters I recommend Francis A.J. Ianni.
John Barber:
Franck, I wish you would point out just how Art is an agent of change, I see Art as occurring after the fact. It is part of the concussion , not part of the explosion . I know how difficult that is for egocentric people to accept. Everyone wants to be at the forefront of social change.
But Art, like journalism, chronicles and solidifies social change. If it does anything else, it is propaganda.Franck R:
Well John, why not find out for yourself....could be an exciting and long journey.
Yet if you prefer to stick to your cherished convictions and beliefs, that's perfectly ok too....be my guest.
I want just to widen horizons and am not here to convince anybody about anything, just voicing my opinions. Anybody is welcome to disagree with me when I say Art IS change, and I would even go so far to say that the (non-superficial) appreciation of Art by the viewer/recipient is transformative CHANGE per se!Cécile Comblen:
German artists saw horror of the war coming well before 2nd world war and painted them for the ones who could read it!Michael Fagan:
Art is capable of stimulating change. We have to make the changes ourselves: first of all within ourselves and our perceptions and conduct. It also reflects a zeitgeist of possibilities that indicate human reality, and the potential we have, as well as the existing process we
engage in to create the world we experience.
As for collective change, this is a much slower, infinitely slower process.Carol Goldberg:
Michael, what does that mean?-
For all those who adhere to the narrow interpretation that Art is only 'PASSIVE-REFLECTIVE', German expressionists after 1914 are of course only able to reflect on their 'Angst', horror, etc.
Cécile, my humble self and perhaps others here do not think that this the whole story. -
Film -- known in French as "Le 7ième Art" (= 7th Art) -- is in 1920ies Germany full of foreboding (silent!) expressionist masterpieces....that are anything but exclusively reflective!
Just sample German director Fritz Lang (1890-1976) and his acclaimed early sci-fi "Metropolis" (1927).
His sinister "Dr. Mabuse" sequels (popular hits between 1922 and 1933 and loosely based on German-language novels by Luxembourgian author and playwright Norbert Jacques) are dark hints at what Hitler and his fledgling Nazi-party was preparing for Germany and the ordinary German bloke at the time.
The last of Lang's sequels in 1933, "The Testament of Dr. Mabuse", was in Lang's own words (in an interview given before his death) intended as kind of warning to all of Europe, and not only Germany, what was coming with Nazis taking over the liberal German 'Weimar-Republic'. In 1933 when the film was released internationally, the Nazis (who had already taken over Germany) banned it in Germany as a quote "menace to public health and safety". Rodrigo de Oliveira Nunes
Dr. Challa, you are so naïve. You are so concerned with change, that you mistake the leading roll of he arts with the trashing impact of a tsunami.
Krishna:
Hello, Mr. Nunes, am I naive? :)
That is what the artists have been claiming and I just repeated their words!
But still I got some interesting replies that support the claims too!
And this is one of my artist friends told me:
The book, "Uncle Tom's Cabin" has sometimes been credited with starting the American Civil War and ending slavery. Norman Rockwell's paintings of the Four Freedoms were used to boost American morale during WWII and the fight against Naziism, Fascism and Japanese Militarism.
Foreign envoys in Byzantium were often converted and overwhelmed emotionally by being taken to church services in Hagia Sophia where they were exposed to stunning mosaic art, massed choral music, sumptuous costumes, etc.
Soviet Agit-Prop troupes using graphic art, street theatre, etc. were used to build support for the Bolsheviks following the Russian Revolution. Art as propaganda has been used by many regimes.
I realize I'm using a very flexible and inclusive definition of art.
One often speculates that if Hitler had been accepted to Art School, the 3rd Reich, WWII, and the Holocaust might not have happened.--
John Barber
Oh My, don't worry about these snarky people Dr.C. Every time I join one of these groups I keep hoping to have an open mature dialog with adults. Alas, I am always disappointed. Do you detect a lot of anger in some of these comments? No one made me be an artist, I choose that for myself. I knew that I would be an artist when I was 5 years old. I wasn't clear what that was exactly, but I held true to that idea even in High school where they tried to beat it out of me. I/2 century later I am still at it, I'm not angry about anything, I'm one of the fortunate few who have realized my destiny. Keep asking your questions. They are legitimate .
Frank R
The problem is if political propaganda, commissioned by fascist, communist or other totalitarian regimes from people who have had training as artists (=painters, writers, film-makers, poets, etc.) can be considered ART at all. In the early Soviet Union, the works of acclaimed director S. Eisenstein are such a case.
Fritz Lang, mentioned here earlier by me, is a counter-example to Eisenstein. In 1933 the Nazis deeply disliked ALL his films, but LIKED his avant-garde filming techniques. Therefore the Nazis actively courted him to make Nazi propaganda films in 1933. He chose to flee Germany (for France) the very same day he got this proposition from Nazi propaganda czar J. Goebbels himself. His wife, Thea von Harbou, subjected herself to the sinister appeal of the Nazis...she stayed and worked for Goebbels as a screen writer that however produced only a few mediocre films....if judged by both artistic criteria as well as Nazi propaganda criteria!--
Rodrigo de Oliveira Nunes
Hello Dr. Challa. Yes, it is very naïve to communicate science through art; that means, for instance, teaching people to write and read using drawings of pieces of fruit and animals. It is naïve in that sense, that is, childish, and quite different to communicating art with science. You
might find yourself enjoying the writings that Leonardo da Vinci has left for us on this matter.
Krishna:
Da Vinci's age is different from present day's science communication age. Whatever you say is your opinion about science based art and you have a right to say whatever you want to say. I have no time to argue with people like you who judge things based on your conditioning of minds. Accept it or reject it but science based art is here to stay. Period.No it isn't. Telepathy worked just as fine then as it does now.Rodrigo de Oliveira:
I am a professional painter , my duty is to find the United States to create beauty , artistic and economic value of my artwork by art critics , art market assessment , go with the flow . I do art pleasant pleasure , excitement, physical, mental, spiritual pleasure
Members of this Group www.artmajeur.com/bfartDon Nicholson
I think the question was; "Has Art ever brought change into society? " We know that art has been used as propaganda for politics; artists have participated in revolutions; Art has definitely played a role in opening sexual acceptance. It has also helped to spread Religions and styles of living. So, it has brought change to society. The word Art is all inclusive as someone noted to include Sculpture, Painting, Film, Novels, Poetry, etc. I think Art has been most persuasive in the less educated cultures where a picture was worth more than a thousand words (because they couldn't read them anyway). Science based art is something I have not considered in relation to change in society. We use science based tools to advance art in all media. Is this Science based art?
Krishna:
Science based art is different from technology assisted art. In technology assisted art tech is used in creating any form of art and with any theme. Science has nothing to do with this art except for assisting in creating it.
Science-art is used to communicate science through art. Even an illiterate person can understand science when shown in a picture form. That is science illustration.These days science illustration is being dubbed as science-art. It is art okay 'the art part' of it lies in how well a person can copy from a specimen. To show people around details of the object of science. It can also explain details for a layman to understand science in a better way. Also data can be presented in a picture form to make it clear. This is not real art but an 'imagined art'.
Science based art is the real art which shows science, scientific themes and theories in a new light. It also deals with the culture of science ( yes, science has its own culture too!).
It makes people understand the relevance of science to their very existence!
You can find all these explanations on my network http://www.kkartlab.in
and find examples of various forms of science related art on my website http://www.kkartfromscience.comNunes:
Your enthusiasm, Dr. Challa, is somewhat alluring. But your language, that is, your art (i.e., "illiterate person", "layman", "real art"), would really benefit from a bit more of History, and a lot more of Love.
Don Nicholson:
I looked at your art on your website. I think you probably are very intelligent and know a lot about science. However, I could not see any scientific theories or themes that I remember from my studies at the University. Your primitive style and geometric images in some cases, are probably the correct styles to communicate your scientific theories. However, I just didn't get it.
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James Elmore
James Elmore
Fantastic question Krishna, I know I have personally been deeply affected and changed by art, traditional and performance. Who can know the number of people who had similar reactions to that work or how my being changed by that art has rippled out through my life? There are certain works that have had a profound effect on the public psyche, Uncle Tom's Cabin and The Rite of Spring come to mind. In my generation so many of us have watched the same television programming and that has created a commonality and cultural reference point with strangers despite great geographical distance growing up.
Mary Anderson
Mary Anderson
I truly am surprised at the view that art doesn't change society. Art has cause revolts, it's historically controlled by the ruling classes and religions because of the impact art can have on society. Have you ever watched a child discover art? These are life-long permanent change going on.
Art is based on the language of the human mind to associate. You can put a painting of a steak in front of a dog and it will never salivate, but humans will. The human mind only uses 20% of the actual visual data to create your perception. Our art must contain that 80% that makes it real to people. Being a master of this language is by definition impacting society.
--mary ellen anderson
周成光艺术能够改变人们的思维，改变人们的行为。因而艺术能够改变社会发展的进程，能够加速社会发展。
Art can change people's thinking, to change people's behavior. Thus the art can change the course of social development, and to accelerate social development. www.artmajeur.com/bfart
Lawrence KlepperI am reminded of the Impressionists who came along when society was still enamored with realism/romanticism and then the Post-impressionists who heralded in Le Belle Epoch.
Arts and artist are usually ten or more years ahead of society and reflect he changes coming to society which society has yet to fathom. Artist are revolutionaries without guns.
Rodrigo de Oliveira NunesDr. Challa's question is not to be underestimated. The actual term "sweeping" is historically correct in a rather poignant way. The florentine based painting workshop in the XV century had a rule for most pupils at the beginning of their training, sweeping the floor of the studio, for one or even two years, as they absorbed what they would by sight.
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Received a private message on this topic from:
Jerome Bosch
founding partner of Bosch & Roitman, head of applied arts and sculpture workshop"It is entirely false belief that art can not save lives, perhaps not saved with a pill or vaccine but from the internalized examination of beings who for one reason or another, feel so dissociated from life rather die. And this, through art has found a way out of his torment and desire to live.
Moreover, art has been the spearhead of societies and ethnic groups that occupy the world, these societies, speaking from an anthropological point of view, they can study both its achievements and its failures attention to the responses of artists who lived in them.
The clearest example is that of the Italian Renaissance, happened to have been detached from the wars that ravaged Europe since Italy was fighting against itself to maintain the power of their city states, reaching a time of relative peace and economic boom, the artists gave their and best of reborn (rebirth) also search for the truth of the ancient civilizations were able to study thanks to the artistic legacy."Krishna:
It would be better if people stick to the subject matter and stop attacking people personally, picking each and every word people say. Don't try to teach people how they should be and what they should be. Before lecturing others, it would be better if you yourself practice them, STOP BULLYING, try to understand words in their contexts and real meaning of them when I say them. I used those words some 50000 times till now in science, science-art contexts but nobody took them out of context till now and pointed them out as words one should not be used and bad. That tells a lot about you.
People around me know who I am and what I am and what I really mean by the words I say. The words I used are not to insult anyone but just to say how men on the street could be made understand science.
Now would you please stop wasting my time, Mr. Nunes?
Science is a vast subject. It is not possible for a single person to communicate all the scientific theories. I am doing my bit.
What are 'evolution', 'gravity', 'dispersion of light', 'electromagnetism' , 'El Nino', 'plate tectonics', symbiosis', 'fundamental forces of nature' if not scientific theories used in my work?
Mr. Dan, if your really try to see things as an artist should you will get it.
Thanks to all the others who really understood what I said and stuck to the subject of discussion. I am really grateful to you people.--
Dr. Krishna,
My name is Don, not Dan. Just because I didn't get it does not make it right nor wrong. This is not science; it is art. That is a major difference which I do not think you fully appreciate. If you are looking for only a 'pat on the back' or a blessing of how good you are, then you will never grow in your understanding of your art. Critique is not a negative but a positive upon which artists grow.--
Elinor E
We have the very question causing a lot of emotion and conflict for people who feel passionately about art and/or science. Krishna and Rodrigo. That may be the salient point - art, and even the theories of art, may be awe inspiring or at least inspire gut reaction, as they resonate to any given person. The discussion of art, as of Cinema or Literature, History or Politics evokes strong opinions at times, yet others will leave the room. Does art reflect history? Of course. It is another form under which we can see, judge, and argue about the world - and yes, at times allowed access to concepts that are too complex. Does it teach scientific research and posit theories? Always: from the caves at Lascaux to the photos of night sky by the Hubble, to Dr. Krishna;s artwork (and look on the NASA website to see a lot of artwork quite similar to hers) to huge body of illustrative work done by scientists for hundreds of years,, to the captivating books of Jules Verne who inspired a generation about rocketry... What about Cousteau? the world saw the miracle of the sea - is there more artistry than the color and movement of that world? He as a writer, a film-maker, a photographer, an explorer - an embodiment of science meets art meets people uses science for art for science, and Da Vinci: the readings the designs and sketches, the appreciation of beauty, invention - the painter. The night sky is glorious, but soon one wants to know how, why? then, when some science is real, we feel so gratified! The world is beautiful, so is the mind - the universe is astounding.. Access all of it however you may! (PS. Hitler proved that evil exists - nothing would have changed that. You quote Chalmers I think - but not sure of the thread -, that if Hitler was not an Art Academy reject he might have taken a diff path. .Art was failure for him, yet he blamed others and rewrote all history, as he was shockingly able to do on all fronts.. He put the beauty of man's creation, art, into the putrid, deathly, hellish defecation sewer that was his Germany, his "new" world..He forced millions into similar fates and death. He is not a subject for intellectual play! But he has been the subject of every form of creative work - the pain and suffering expressed in hundreds of ways. Dr. Charla, on this topic perhaps you are naive or ignorant. Rejection from an art academy did not create the aberration that showed a "thing" could look human and seem human and wield power, and yet be the antithesis of human. A bomb of destruction, he arrived at a perfect moment for himself and so humans got to see a monster at work and got to know cold fear. .
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Mariana Valdes
Hy! I am working at this time with a philosopher, and media artist, with he has developed thru 6 values a platform to make a shift in the human conscience, thru different big scale cities interventions with a a scientific verification. He will start next month in Cuernavaca, mor.
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The price is determined by the originality of art , materials and transportation costs of the artist, creation time , the artist's popularity , brokers ( gallery commission ) composed of other factors . Originality and master artists of international reputation art prices by master artists decided not material transportation time and other factors, is negligible . Master artist can be described as astronomical prices . Such as: Picasso , Van Gogh 's works price of several hundred million dollars or more. www.artmajeur.com / bfart
If you just want to hear from people that agree with you and tell you how great you are, you will stay in the same place. So, enjoy your life. I will stay out of it.--
Krishna:Received a private message in Italian on this topic from:
Jerome Bosch
founding partner of Bosch & Roitman, head of applied arts and sculpture workshop
"It is entirely false belief that art can not save lives, perhaps not saved with a pill or vaccine but from the internalized examination of beings who for one reason or another, feel so dissociated from life rather die. And this, through art has found a way out of his torment and desire to live.
Moreover, art has been the spearhead of societies and ethnic groups that occupy the world, these societies, speaking from an anthropological point of view, they can study both its achievements and its failures attention to the responses of artists who lived in them.
The clearest example is that of the Italian Renaissance, happened to have been detached from the wars that ravaged Europe since Italy was fighting against itself to maintain the power of their city states, reaching a time of relative peace and economic boom, the artists gave their and best of reborn (rebirth) also search for the truth of the ancient civilizations were able to study thanks to the artistic legacy."
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Thank you so much for this informative reply, Mr. Bosch. Really appreciate it.
I think people are spinning things here. I never ever expect everybody to appreciate my work when I ask them to see it. I whole heatedly appreciate constructive criticism. ( An enemy who criticizes is always better than a friend who praises you!) Destructive criticism is what I keep away from.
Mr. Dan or Don, did I ever say you are right or wrong? This is really funny! People are imagining things! When I was about to enter the cyber world, some friends advised me- "whenever you say something here, people will try to understand it from their cultural, regional and emotional point of view. Don't expect them to understand things in the way you want them to". This is so true here!
Okay if asking something to learn about something is naive, I am naive! :)
But people who don't have the answers to my questions, please keep away. That will save my time. If this sounds arrogant, Yes, I am A! If this sounds bullying, Yes, I am a B!
And I am "C"! And "D" too () :):)The spinning comment is not about you, Ms. E!
http://kkartlab.in/group/Criticisms/forum/topics/art-critics-answer...
Wileharda Mbunda:
I am An African Art dealer leaving in USA.Art serves so much and beyond. It is a form of Science of its own but misunderstood and fought by many scientists. It should be collaborated which need more research of its own.We have pieces of art from Africa which solves many unsolvable questions by scientists today. There are also many scientists who have taken advantages of those artists for their own benefits.
Mariana Valdes
I will maintain you inform about it, we are translating a conference that the artist exposed at Mexpro Expo, Houston, Tx. As soon as i have it i will post it.
Krishna:
Ms. Mbunda., Thanks for your comment. You said : "We have pieces of art from Africa which solves many unsolvable questions by scientists today".
Please let me know the details and I will highlight them and bring them to the notice of the science-art world through my network. Anything associated with knowledge should be given its due respect whether it is from the field of art or science.Mbunda: Please call if you would want to discuss more. Call or email me. Twigambunda@gmail.com
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Look into the US Abstract Art Movement just after WWII. Art was used by the CIA
and the US government to put the US forward as the new cultural world leader during that period. These activities certainly succeeded as the US did become the leader in art
since the 1950's.
Faye Gordon-Lewis--
Ibrahim Karamemet
It does not mostly. But not it should be. What mission has the nationalist statues in cities? On the other hand think about Picasso's Guernica. What effect did only this one artwork? And many others...
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Creativity is source of everything..
one example of that is Jules Verne and his illustrated books..
starting with mind of children it can develop in to science..
If right key opens source of creativity ,fantasy...process might lead in
to the changes.. ( Peter Lastre)
--Remigio Valdés de Hoyos ouvrier de l'image et du son - visual artist - développement de partenariats artistiques et culturels try to read Ma Vie avec Mozart from Éric-Emmanuel Schmitt, unfortunately perhaps just in french. and you'll see how mozart could save a life of someone that was going to comit suicide... regards
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That question is hard to quantify, as is the question why did the patient survive? Nothing in life happens in isolation, everything is the result of multiple influences.
Art is an integral part of the body of humanity, and being such it is a valid contributor and catalyst of change. When a baseball pitcher throws a strike, is it his are or the whole body. Art is the short hand for the imagination, so a quote by Einstein works here "imagination is everything, it is the preview of tomorrow's marvels. I think it is a little too much to ask that art change the world on its own. ( Stephan Hossbach)--
Gina Telcocci:
If you use a generously broad definition of art, wouldnt you say that the proliferation of movies & TV shows depicting sympathetic gay characters has hastened the acceptance of gayness in the US over the last decade?
Dr. Challa, have you read Ellen Dissanayake's works on what is art, what is art for, etc.?
I like her view of art as an activity, rather than a product. And I think, like everything else, art can be both a catalyst & a reflection - impossible to parse out the differences.--
Anthony Smith
Dear Krishna,
I think your OP is very interesting but perhaps too broad in its scope.
Art has undoubtedly changed societies and cultures, done its part in creating and destroying empires and is still used to this day to modify or create change within societies/countries.
The world as a single entity? No.
In recent history, propaganda posters (art) have been major factors in moving a populations thoughts from one belief to another. So much so that these posters are now considered highly collectable.
As Gina has said above, if one regards any creative process, such as TV or movies, as art, then undoubtedly, such media are used to modify a culture/society. It is happening today.
Think of propagandist movies of the 1930's/40's or those done in China, Vietnam, Russia, Cambodia, even the USA !! They have all used it with effect.
Music is used to sooth or to induce madness.
Anything that can influence change is powerful. Art, in its entirety, does this.Cindy B
I don't know if it has ever helped in changing the world, but do believe artists have a great responsibility to lift up and show the things not working within the world along with the beauty, Artists have to show war, abuse, hunger, if nothing else, show those in a way another culture might understand so as to relate. Art is a language of the world, it communicates, it can be healing. Goya, Picasso, Dali all did work about war...I chose to do part of my art on issues in a society like Alzheimer's disease, and protection of endangered animals. And also set out to inspire other women sculptors to come together for one or two exhibition per year on issues like environment, health, children, abuse etc... Mainly to at least try to make a difference in the world and connect beyond then just our own careers as artists. Also bringing the women together in sharing and working together. As countries could do with artists in the world for a common goal or causes.
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art is changing the world constantly people have to think about the message of art and automaticly think about life
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Art, like anything else, can have an effect on the world. But I think it's a mistake to suppose that it's effect is direct, as in political or social protest (not that I believe that these have particularly direct effects, either). Of course artists make work that refers to world events and issues. Visual art is a kind of communicative language, but it's not a rational, linear kind of language.
Much contemporary art seems to aspire to address all kinds of issues. I think many people assume that if the message or content is laudable, then it must be good art. But I dont think that follows necessarily. There are a few genius artists (William Kentridge comes to mind immediately) who do great political art, but not a lot!
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Nowadays some artists would give their works a kind of scientific legitimacy appropriating approaches or scientific codes.
Scientific research wants to be objective, unlike art which is based on the expression and subjectivity. But in fact no human activity is really completely objective ...
This is why science sometimes joined art ( Patrick Baillet)
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Elinor,
I agree with you. I went to the movie the 'Monuments Men' this week and was really surprised at the superficial explanation the movie offered that the reason Hitler looted, destroyed, and controlled art in Nazi Germany was because he was a failed artist and wanted to build a museum.Hitler is a excellent example of why art is important. Hitler did what he did to control people. He understood that people form attachments and identity with art. What would it mean to you as an American if the statue of liberty was threatened or stolen. Whole communities were held hostage when their most precious monuments were wired with explosives.That controlling art can indoctrinate people.
Art carries with it the expression of thought, and shared thoughts affect beliefs, identity, and behavior. Because we so identify the art with our beliefs than we can't emotionally separate the attack on the art from an attack on our beliefs. In Hitler's case it's emotional terrorism designed to subdue people. For the business it's the corporate logo, and for you it's branding. But it's all important because of this power of art to affect others.
--mary ellen anderson
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Lawrence Klepper, MFAScientific linear perspective, where science and art join together to benefit mankind.
--Josephine Katz-Yaroshevich
In Renaissance art, together with scientific and geographical discoveries, formed Homo Universale.
In the early XX century architecture Le Corbusier, Mies van der Rohe and the Bauhaus gave birth to a new urbanism.
Agit-prop and social realism, together with Gulag, created Homo Sovetikus.
Modern media are strong visual art – they gave birth to Homo Consumer.
Art has a great power and influence both for good and for bad.
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Scarlett MasselHello Dr Challa, realy interesting discussion.
Not sure if this might be of any use but I was listening to a program this afternoon while working in my studio called The Infinite Monkey Cage with Brian Cox, BBC 4 radio.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00wh9vz.
Regards....
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susan bornsteinI think art can be prophetic
--Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa
Scientist, artist, writer, poet, designer, Runs a network- http://www.kkartlab.in, www.kkartfromscience.com
Thanks, once again for all these informative and insightful comments. Really learning something here :)
A private message sent to me:Remigio Valdés de Hoyos
ouvrier de l'image et du son - visual artist - développement de partenariats artistiques et culturelstry to read Ma Vie avec Mozart from Éric-Emmanuel Schmitt, unfortunately perhaps just in french. and you'll see how mozart could save a life of someone that was going to comit suicide... regards
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Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa
Ms. Massel, thanks for the link. Although I couldn't find anything new in the debate, I enjoyed it all the same.
Thomas Outt
Thomas Outt
Art, in many ways, came to define the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. Icons of Christ, Mary, Joseph, & Saints have been part of this experience for centuries. Now, doubt is nothing new, but neither is inspiration. Both have their place in keeping things in a proper balance. First came the belief, then came the art that affirmed the belief, and helped in perpetuating it. Symbolism, in a visual form, handed down from generation to generation, benefiting from cultural influences, permitted a Universal expression & communication of devotion. While there are other problems that cannot be addressed here, I think art played a role in helping keep traditions & beliefs intact for the present times & for future generations.
Dimitrios TsourisA couple of quotations always helps, maybe? The wonderful little book by Marshall McLuhan, 'The Medium Is the Massage', on the chapter on art states in a subversive way that 'art - is anything you can get away with', (in modernity). G K Chesteron meanwhile after exploring the Lascaux Caves in France where there are many primitive wall paintings and comes to the grand conclusion that, 'art is the signature of man'. This signature is what marks us out from all other species, that alone places art in context.
Willard Balthazar
Art is a manifestation of free thought, and it's free thought that changes the world.
Carol GoldbergWillard, What about the Art from totaliatory regimes. The art produced in the Soviet Union was certainly not a product of free thought but it was Art and the producers were artists.
Peter Lastre--!?.....
Well,even in totalitarian regimes (States)thinking is free..
In that case art is even more important as breading hole...
Willard Balthazar
Exceptions prove the rule: art produced by a regime's art puppets is not free thinking. Regimes ultimately fall because free thinking is the antipathy of totalitarianism.Peter Lastre
Peter
Peter Lastre
--!?.....
There is lot of puppets in this World..
Most of them are in ugly business of puppeting
as survival strategy...
Wileharda MbundaArt has always been used to document history, events, passages ETC.
Mary AndersonBut I think the thing that makes art so dangerous to the ruling class is because despite total control physically on artists they can't keep that examination the artist's own soul does in creating the piece. Look at how the old masters were always secretly spoofing the church.
Michelangelo could still have painted a masterpiece if it was Mickey Mouse and the mousekateers, instead of God and the disciples - lol. Art is not the correct subject or philosophy.
Our profession is artists, so you're going to be painting for other people. Don't let that be outside your skill set to do so.
--mary ellen andersonDavid Randall
Throughout history art has had changing roles and influence over and by cultures and societies. It has been part of all cultural dialogs for centuries. Sometimes reflecting upon society and policies, sometimes helping steer or imagine new directions and ways of understanding our world. I call that sweeping influence. Less dramatic possibly than wars and maybe more subtle in changing the inner life and attitudes than the outer manifestation of those issues. Art has often been concerned more with the spiritual and things hard to measure. It is often measured in the test of time. Good reason to preserve and create work to last long enough to have it's influence. All societies and cultures are measured by the art they produce.
Our art is the measure, record and spark of change good and bad, I believe. Art is eternally human, broad and sweeping for that. I'm sure there is a book or two in this discussion.--
Barbara Perrotti
I should have read all the other comments but do not have time right now. I do know that my Art has saved my life believe it or not .... and I have been told that my Art and my teaching has saved others.
Not sweeping changes, but then it has to be making a difference otherwise the hospitals and prisons would not present Art for therapy. So many programs are devoted to this.--
Sara Smith
According to the book Saving Italy by Robert Edsel, the desire to safe-guard the priceless art treasures of Italy was, in large part, responsible for the Allied governments being willing to negotiate a surrender of all German troops in Italy toward the end of the war. This negotiation undertaken with the German generals occupying Italy saved thousands of lives on both sides of the war, and ended much suffering for the poor people of Italy. Read the book - it is fascinating and the story should be more widely known.
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Jayne Spensieri
From at least the time of cave drawings onward, I see great art as facilitating the evolution of humanity toward its higher and higher moral purpose.
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Mary
Art is based on the language of the human mind. It's based on the remarkable ability of the human mind to associate and fill-in 80% of our individual realities. But languages are used to communicate and so is art, in that it's meant to be seen and experienced by others. To be this significant voice of human existence, history, and development.
Art is the inexplicable love, identity, and unification that people form to otherwise valueless (beyond communication) inexpensive substrates and materials. Regardless, of the genre.
--mary ellen anderson--
Dimitrios Tsouris
From all the comments posted, and there have been many, it really doe's go to show that to define beauty means many things to as many people, it is a hopeless task, but enlightening nevertheless. William Blake's 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is certainly true if we follow all the comments however spurious and erroneous Blake's quotation maybe.
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Kunstenares bij Georgette Van Boven
Konden maar alle kunstenaars overeenkomen, zou dit geen mooi begin zijn om aan de wereld te tonen. Weet dat het moeilijk te begrijpen is dat ik zoiets voorstel .Kunstenaars,moeten zichzelf zijn in de eerste plaats maar veel delen heel veel delen in broederschap over de hele wereld.
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Cecile Comblen
I have seen the German propaganda movies by theGerman female screenwriter Thea von Harbou....... ; my father was also an officer in the Belgian army during the 2nd world war.... it was part of our reality thanks to him.I picked up the intense magnetism Hitler had on people, his close officers would be glued to his person and his speeches; the photography did a very good job at enhancing Hitler...... it certainly gave me the shivers,I think here in this discussion group(I receive so many e-m.!) it is not a question to be right or wrong....but share some very interesting, if at times contradicting views between intelligent people.....agree to disagree...?
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Scarlett Massel
Dimitrios, I thought it was Margaret Wolfe Hungerford who is accredited with being the originator of that phrase.... Blake? And why spurious?
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lewis Pusey
All technology devolves from art, ultimately, as design and symbolic logic.
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This guy came close. See his TED talk.
http://youtu.be/0PAy1zBtTbw
Thomas Brummett
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Tamara KulishHow about how art is being used as a tool for therapy, to help people turn their lives around? Just take a look at how art programs in prisons and drug treatment centers as an example, are helping people get in touch with their inner issues, and in the healing they are no longer then going to go out and continue on their negative trajectory? Is this not changing the course of history, albeit one person at a time? Is art only valid as a potential life changer and history changer if it only is on a massive scale as to be noted in history text books, or are individual lives changed also valid? I believe that when one at a time is changed this in turn changes the course of history!
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Franck R
Merci Cécile ...for your comment on Nazi German screenwriter Thea von Harbou.
Please allow me to remind everyone here that her artistic, filmic and propagandist influence is small fry compared to the (pseudo Wagnerian) 'Supreme-Nazi-Goddess-of-Film': Leni Riefenstahl (1902-2003).
Riefenstahl was an acclaimed dancer, actress, photographer, Nazi war-correspondent and film director in her own right. Her opus magnum as director is the quasi-Wagnerian filmic mise-en scène of the Nazi party mass convention in 1934 ("Triumph of the Will"), as well as spinning the 1936 Berlin Olympics into the film: "Olympia - Festival of [Fascist] Beauty".--
Daniel Elster
Not one single work of art convinced Hitler to spare one single life.
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If no art had existed, revealing human societies and the time preceding the following, we simply would not be where we are. And may not even be there at all! If the plants in another field, had not possessed a particular morphological part, how would they change? The need for expression, communication, the importance of this work of memory, they are of lesser importance in our deep as the ability to move in space, or wanting to conquer territories operation?
In view of the vital function of our species since prehistoric times, a society devoid of artistic expression (expressed itself recognized by itself) Has it ever existed? In fact, I think this is like asking if they invented the wheel or writing, really influenced the course of history! May also be that the definition of "Art" is to review, where although it have a meaning which escapes me for the moment, it is very possible ... By Diana MoriconiI had the opportunity to discover the work and the art (yes, the art but he does not know) of Mr. Brian Johnston. Who was wondering, when he visited an art center in Toronto, if the result of his photography (under electronic microscope) could be considered as art, in balance with all he could see in this art center. Is'n't it the first step to become an artist ? The sight, the question, and the action as a restitution of our feelings... Not easy to find his webside (he is an old man now leaving in Toronto) but for me it was like a journey trough space Odissy ! I told him, and i am honored and very happy to be able to work from his wonderfull pictures... By Diana Moriconi
Krishna: Merci, Ms. Moriconi. Mr. Brian Johnston's work is considered as "Art of Science" or 'science-art'. There are various types of science-related art.
B. Clyde Beck
I believe Art has actually changed the course of history. Art has as it's historical roles both recording what has happened and pointing in new directions. The former, in earlier times, has taken the form of cave paintings and petroglyphs that appear to serve several purposes. One purpose is to record what was seen. Another to point the way to where things are. The art records the history legends and served to convey the spiritual meanings to the next generation. As for pointing in new directions, the art serves to record the basis for the culture originating the art and becomes a springboard by which succeeding generations build.
I will post more of my ideas as I refine them and confirm them by research.
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Franck R
German expressionists were not doing something purely REFLECTIVE of the horrors of WW1...no they actively 'fore-SAW' where this was leading.
Carol Goldberg
Yes Franck, the German Expressionists chronicled the degeneration of politics and government of Germany of the time. I doubt they foresaw what would happen but were reacting to what they saw happening. I.e. they painted their own angst.