Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists? - SCI-ART LAB2024-03-29T13:36:20Zhttps://kkartlab.in/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science?groupUrl=some-science&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIn order for there to be an…tag:kkartlab.in,2023-08-12:2816864:Comment:2495212023-08-12T05:09:29.707ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
<ol>
<li><span>In order for there to be an afterlife, our consciousness </span><span>must</span><span> be capable of surviving apart from our physical bodies (call it a “soul” or a “spirit” or what have you).</span></li>
<li><span>And if our consciousness </span><span>is</span><span> capable of surviving apart from our physical bodies, it can’t be generated by or produced by or be wholly dependent on our physical bodies (and certainly not by any one particular </span><span>part</span><span> of…</span></li>
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<li><span>In order for there to be an afterlife, our consciousness </span><span>must</span><span> be capable of surviving apart from our physical bodies (call it a “soul” or a “spirit” or what have you).</span></li>
<li><span>And if our consciousness </span><span>is</span><span> capable of surviving apart from our physical bodies, it can’t be generated by or produced by or be wholly dependent on our physical bodies (and certainly not by any one particular </span><span>part</span><span> of our bodies). We should, for example, be able to damage or even replace a toe or an arm or a lung or a heart and not have our consciousness be affected (assuming we don’t die in the process).</span></li>
<li><span>And this is generally what we find to be the case, with one glaring exception — our brains. Every other part of our body can be damaged or even replaced without our consciousness being affected, but not our brain. If our brains are damaged, our entire personality can change. We become, in effect, completely different persons. And, while practically any organ in the body can be replaced without changing who we are (they can even transplant </span><span>faces</span><span> now), does anybody imagine that if it were possible to receive a brain transplant that our consciousness with the new brain would match that of the previous brain?</span></li>
<li><span>Therefore, since it appears that our consciousness is inextricably and indelibly linked to our physical brains, that would indicate that our consciousness </span><span>cannot</span><span> exist independent of our bodies and therefore </span><span>cannot</span><span> survive the death of our bodies. And if our consciousnesses cannot exist without our bodies, then there </span><span>cannot</span><span> be any such thing as an “afterlife.”</span></li>
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<li><span>People have had so-called “near death experiences” and have told stories about visiting an afterlife of some sort. So what? There’s a reason they are called </span><span>near</span><span> death experiences and not </span><span>actual</span><span> death experiences. Not a single person in recorded history has </span><span>actually</span><span> died and returned to tell the tale, and the phenomenon of near death experiences is actually pretty well understood as a purely biological reaction to an oxygen starved brain ( there is an article here on this network , please read it).</span></li>
<li><span>Just </span><span>asserting</span><span> things like “we are more than our bodies” or “there is a part of us that lives on after death” doesn’t actually make them true. Without actual evidence, it’s just wishful thinking. Similarly, the fact that you have an “opinion” or a “belief” in an afterlife of some sort is not actually a justification for anybody else to accept it as true.</span></li>
</ul> Physics and the Immortality o…tag:kkartlab.in,2023-02-24:2816864:Comment:2460892023-02-24T05:51:15.099ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
<h1 class="entry-title">Physics and the Immortality of the Soul</h1>
<p>The topic of “Life after death” raises disreputable connotations of past-life regression and haunted houses, but there are a large number of people in the world who believe in<span> </span><em>some</em><span> </span>form of persistence of the individual soul after life ends. Clearly this is an important question, one of the most important ones we can possibly think of in terms of relevance to human life. If science has…</p>
<h1 class="entry-title">Physics and the Immortality of the Soul</h1>
<p>The topic of “Life after death” raises disreputable connotations of past-life regression and haunted houses, but there are a large number of people in the world who believe in<span> </span><em>some</em><span> </span>form of persistence of the individual soul after life ends. Clearly this is an important question, one of the most important ones we can possibly think of in terms of relevance to human life. If science has something to say about, we should all be interested in hearing.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/17/136406757/the-final-word-on-life-after-death">Adam Frank</a><span> </span>thinks that science has nothing to say about it. He advocates being “firmly agnostic” on the question. (His coblogger<span> </span><a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/20/136474737/prizefighting-and-the-limits-of-agnosticism">Alva Noë</a><span> </span>resolutely disagrees.) I have an enormous respect for Adam; he’s a smart guy and a careful thinker. When we<span> </span><a href="http://preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2009/01/26/the-sacred/">disagree</a><span> </span>it’s with the kind of respectful dialogue that should be a model for disagreeing with non-crazy people. But here he couldn’t be more wrong.</p>
<p>Adam claims that “simply is no controlled, experimental[ly] verifiable information” regarding life after death. By these standards, there is no controlled, experimentally verifiable information regarding whether the Moon is made of green cheese. Sure, we can take spectra of light reflecting from the Moon, and even send astronauts up there and bring samples back for analysis. But that’s only scratching the surface, as it were. What if the Moon is almost all green cheese, but is covered with a layer of dust a few meters thick? Can you really say that you<span> </span><em>know</em><span> </span>this isn’t true? Until you have actually examined every single cubic centimeter of the Moon’s interior, you don’t really have experimentally verifiable information, do you? So maybe agnosticism on the green-cheese issue is warranted. (Come up with all the information we actually do have about the Moon; I promise you I can fit it into the green-cheese hypothesis.)</p>
<p>Obviously this is completely crazy. Our conviction that green cheese makes up a negligible fraction of the Moon’s interior comes not from direct observation, but from the gross incompatibility of that idea with other things we think we know. Given what we do understand about rocks and planets and dairy products and the Solar System, it’s absurd to imagine that the Moon is made of green cheese. We know better.</p>
<p>We also know better for life after death, although people are much more reluctant to admit it.<span> </span><span id="more-6819"></span>Admittedly, “direct” evidence one way or the other is hard to come by — all we have are a few legends and sketchy claims from unreliable witnesses with near-death experiences, plus a bucketload of wishful thinking. But surely it’s okay to take account of indirect evidence — namely, compatibility of the idea that some form of our individual soul survives death with other things we know about how the world works.</p>
<p>Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle:<span> </span><a href="http://preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/09/29/seriously-the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-really-are-completely-understood/">the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood</a>, and there’s no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die. If you claim that some form of soul persists beyond death, what particles is that soul made of? What forces are holding it together? How does it interact with ordinary matter?</p>
<p>Everything we know about quantum field theory (QFT) says that there aren’t any sensible answers to these questions. Of course, everything we know about quantum field theory could be wrong. Also, the Moon could be made of green cheese.</p>
<p>Among advocates for life after death, nobody even tries to sit down and do the hard work of explaining how the basic physics of atoms and electrons would have to be altered in order for this to be true. If we tried, the fundamental absurdity of the task would quickly become evident.</p>
<p>Even if you don’t believe that human beings are “simply” collections of atoms evolving and interacting according to rules laid down in the Standard Model of particle physics, most people would grudgingly admit that atoms are<span> </span><em>part</em><span> </span>of who we are. If it’s really nothing but atoms and the known forces, there is clearly no way for the soul to survive death. Believing in life after death, to put it mildly, requires physics beyond the Standard Model. Most importantly, we need some way for that “new physics” to interact with the atoms that we do have.</p>
<p>Very roughly speaking, when most people think about an immaterial soul that persists after death, they have in mind some sort of blob of spirit energy that takes up residence near our brain, and drives around our body like a soccer mom driving an SUV. The questions are these: what form does that spirit energy take, and how does it interact with our ordinary atoms? Not only is new physics required, but dramatically new physics. Within QFT, there can’t be a new collection of “spirit particles” and “spirit forces” that interact with our regular atoms, because we would have detected them in existing experiments. Ockham’s razor is not on your side here, since you have to posit a completely new realm of reality obeying very different rules than the ones we know.</p>
<p>But let’s say you do that. How is the spirit energy supposed to interact with us? Here is the equation that tells us how electrons behave in the everyday world:</p>
<p><img src="https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/wp-content/ql-cache/quicklatex.com-77532a1db8f8688c25a1c26f20e5b64c_l3.svg" class="ql-img-inline-formula quicklatex-auto-format" alt="i\gamma^\mu \partial_\mu \psi_e - m \psi_e = ie\gamma^\mu A_\mu \psi_e - \gamma^\mu\omega_\mu \psi_e ." title="Rendered by QuickLaTeX.com" height="19" width="301"/></p>
<p>Dont’ worry about the details; it’s the fact that the equation exists that matters, not its particular form. It’s the<span> </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_equation">Dirac equation</a><span> </span>— the two terms on the left are roughly the velocity of the electron and its inertia — coupled to electromagnetism and gravity, the two terms on the right.</p>
<p>As far as every experiment ever done is concerned, this equation is the<span> </span><em>correct</em><span> </span>description of how electrons behave at everyday energies. It’s not a complete description; we haven’t included the weak nuclear force, or couplings to hypothetical particles like the Higgs boson. But that’s okay, since those are only important at high energies and/or short distances, very far from the regime of relevance to the human brain.</p>
<p>If you believe in an immaterial soul that interacts with our bodies, you need to believe that<span> </span><em>this equation is not right</em>, even at everyday energies. There needs to be a new term (at minimum) on the right, representing how the soul interacts with electrons. (If that term doesn’t exist, electrons will just go on their way as if there weren’t any soul at all, and then what’s the point?) So any respectable scientist who took this idea seriously would be asking — what form does that interaction take? Is it local in spacetime? Does the soul respect gauge invariance and Lorentz invariance? Does the soul have a Hamiltonian? Do the interactions preserve unitarity and conservation of information?</p>
<p>Nobody ever asks these questions out loud, possibly because of how silly they sound. Once you start asking them, the choice you are faced with becomes clear: either overthrow everything we think we have learned about modern physics, or distrust the stew of religious accounts/unreliable testimony/wishful thinking that makes people believe in the possibility of life after death. It’s not a difficult decision, as scientific theory-choice goes.</p>
<p>We don’t choose theories in a vacuum. We are allowed — indeed, required — to ask how claims about how the world works fit in with other things we know about how the world works. I’ve been talking here like a particle physicist, but there’s an analogous line of reasoning that would come from evolutionary biology. Presumably amino acids and proteins don’t have souls that persist after death. What about viruses or bacteria? Where upon the chain of evolution from our monocellular ancestors to today did organisms stop being described purely as atoms interacting through gravity and electromagnetism, and develop an immaterial immortal soul?</p>
<p>There’s no reason to be agnostic about ideas that are dramatically incompatible with everything we know about modern science. Once we get over any reluctance to face reality on this issue, we can get down to the much more interesting questions of how human beings and consciousness really work.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-th...</a></p>
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<div class="headline-with-subtype"><h1 class="section-theme-background-indicator publication-font">Life after death 'impossible' with 'no way' for soul to survive says scientist</h1>
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<p class="sub-title">Dr Sean Carroll, a cosmologist and physics professor, argues that the laws of the universe do not allow consciousness to be entirely separated from our physical body.</p>
<p>If you thought the last few years on planet Earth were bad then you're in for another letdown - a<span> </span><a href="https://www.dailystar.co.uk/latest/science" rel="Follow noopener" target="_blank">scientist</a><span> </span>has now claimed that life after death is “beyond the realm of scientific probability”.</p>
<p>A professor who has dedicated much of his life studying the laws of physics and claims that the laws of the universe does not allow consciousness to continue to operate after we die.</p>
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<p>Dr Sean Carroll, who is a cosmologist and a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology in the US argues that for there to be an afterlife, consciousness would need to be something that is entirely "separated from our physical body."</p>
<p>And here's the bad news - that's a possibility that the laws of physics deny.</p>
<p id="amp-readmore-target">His conclusion on life after death is built on the understanding that “the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood”, so everything occurs within the realms of this.</p>
<p>Dr Carroll wrote in the<span> </span><a href="https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Scientific American</a>: “Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood, and there's no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die.”</p>
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<p>He continued: “If it's really nothing but atoms and the known forces, there is clearly no way for the soul to survive death.</p>
<p>“Believing in life after death, to put it mildly, requires physics beyond the Standard Model.”</p>
<p>Once this is accepted by all scientists, Dr Carroll said it is then they can truly begin to understand how the human mind operates.</p>
<p>He said: “There's no reason to be agnostic about ideas that are dramatically incompatible with everything we know about modern science.</p>
<p>“Once we get over any reluctance to face reality on this issue, we can get down to the much more interesting questions of how human beings and consciousness really work.”</p>
<p><a href="https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/life-after-death-impossible-no-26187910" target="_blank">https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/life-after-death-impossible-no-26187910</a></p> Is Atma equal to energy in sc…tag:kkartlab.in,2023-01-19:2816864:Comment:2456432023-01-19T05:13:25.559ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
<div class="q-box qu-mb--medium qu-mt--small"><div class="q-flex qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-box"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--xlarge qu-fontWeight--bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks qu-lineHeight--regular qu-wordBreak--break-word"><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 daLTSH"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row"></div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Please do not conflate religious/philosophical ideas and scientific ones.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box" width="148px"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Energy</span></p>
<div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-mWiyE"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#mWiyE">[1]</a></div>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span> in physics is a very precise concept. In particular:</span></p>
<ul class="q-box">
<li class="q-relative"><span>Whenever physicists, chemists, biologists or engineers talk about energy, they are talking about the same thing (Do you have any idea how hard it is to get physicists and biologists to agree on something?)</span></li>
<li class="q-relative"><span>It is a quantitative property. When a physicist says that potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy, they are not simply making a qualitative, hand-wavy statement. They can use equipment to measure the energy changes involved and show equality. And when they make the quantitative comparison and things don’t match, scientists get seriously bothered. The prediction of neutrino</span><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-ROBnw"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#ROBnw">[2]</a></div>
<span> came out of the need to conserve energy (and other quantities).</span></li>
</ul>
<hr class="q-box" width="148px"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>So how does this compare to </span><span>Atma</span><span>?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Atma</span></p>
<div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-gQgCc"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#gQgCc">[3]</a></div>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span> is the Hindu philosophical concept of the soul (similar concepts exist in other Indic religions). It permeates all creatures, and is eternal. In the cycle of rebirths, the soul sheds one body with death like cloth and wears another. Liberation is finally attained when one realises that the self is identical to the divine (</span><span>Brahman</span><span>). I am not an expert in Hindu philosophy, so please correct me if I am wrong.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>So, the way I see it, the Hindu concept of </span><span>Atma</span><span> is definitely an intriguing philosophy and theological foundation. But as a scientist, I cannot see how it matches the scientific concept of energy at all.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box" width="148px"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>The top answer on this page, receiving thousands of upvotes, claims that atma is equivalent to energy by making the comparison with cellular respiration. The chemical storage of energy in Adenosine triphosphate (ATP)</span></p>
<div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-UHHnB"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#UHHnB">[4]</a></div>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span> is equated to atma.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Of course, this brings up many issues</span></p>
<ul class="q-box">
<li class="q-relative"><span>ATP is an important biomolecule, but it can stay outside the body too. For example, we have managed to synthesise it artificially.</span><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-xWoRl"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#xWoRl">[5]</a></div>
<span> Given that the chemical can be found and created outside the body, does it mean that these artificial systems have </span><span>atma</span><span> too?</span></li>
<li class="q-relative"><span>Even after death, the body continues to produce ATP for a while.</span><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-mwBVV"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#mwBVV">[6]</a></div>
<span> As a molecule, it can remain in the body. How does this match with the concept of the soul leaving the body with death?</span></li>
<li class="q-relative"><span>If </span><span>atma</span><span> is energy in general and not the kind of chemical energy stored in ATP, why is it only found in living objects?</span></li>
<li class="q-relative"><span>On the other hand, if </span><span>atma</span><span> is the kind of “life energy” the answer claims to be limited to living beings, it can be created and destroyed. How does it match the concept of the eternality of </span><span>atma</span><span>?</span></li>
</ul>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>The rest of the top answer is similarly about stretching the meaning of verses in scripture to make comparisons with energy. But that is not how science operates. You have to come up with falsifiable predictions which can be used to test the validity. If the tests come up wrong, you have to discard or modify your theory. And of course, your theory has to be consistent. What I see in the </span><span>atma</span><span>-energy comparisons are simply scriptural gymnastics with a lot of holes, with no scientific rigour or predictive power.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box" width="148px"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Finally, it is my opinion that making such comparisons degrades the beauty of the philosophical concept itself.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>What I see in the philosophy of </span><span>atma</span><span> is the concept of the unity of all life. Every living thing of the past, present and future are one. All of life is you and me. This has theological implications and affects the way we act. By trying to tie it up with the scientific statement that all life is based on the same chemicals, isn’t the beauty of the philosophy lost?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Similarly, by claiming that the Advaita Vedanta statement of the unity of </span><span>Atma</span><span> and </span><span>Brahma</span><span> is just the scientific concept of equivalence of forms of energy, haven’t you lost all the depth of the philosophy?</span></p>
<hr class="q-box" width="148px"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Please do not debase your religion and philosophy by trying to make them match scientific concepts. But if you insist, we have high standards. Make a consistent, predictive theory that is falsifiable and not merely explanatory. And when you are talking about something like energy, you better be quantitative. Trying to claim some sort of scientific support for vitalism</span></p>
<div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox2-sc-9vzzum-1 bQPxhA" id="cite-haASL"><a class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#haASL">[7]</a></div>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span> is not going to work in the 21st century.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>PS</span><span>: My answers countering stretching of scripture to match scientific concepts and other pseudoscience are aggregated </span><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" title="answeraggregator.quora.com" href="https://answeraggregator.quora.com/Pseudoscience" target="_top">here</a><span>.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-bold qu-pb--small">Footnotes</p>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-mWiyE" target="_top">[1]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="mWiyE"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Energy - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-ROBnw" target="_top">[2]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="ROBnw"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Neutrino - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-gQgCc" target="_top">[3]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="gQgCc"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Ātman (Hinduism) - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-UHHnB" target="_top">[4]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="UHHnB"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Adenosine triphosphate - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-xWoRl" target="_top">[5]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="xWoRl"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/nl051896e" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Artificial Organelle: ATP Synthesis from Cellular Mimetic Polymersomes</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-mwBVV" target="_top">[6]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="mwBVV"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Rigor mortis - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small qu-wordBreak--break-word"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-haASL" target="_top">[7]<span> </span></a><div class="q-box QTextCitations___StyledBox-sc-9vzzum-0 kwbZz" id="haASL"></div>
<a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Vitalism - Wikipedia</a></div>
</div> Q; How does a soul enter a mo…tag:kkartlab.in,2022-03-02:2816864:Comment:2408592022-03-02T07:36:03.433ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
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<div class="q-absolute qu-fullX qu-fullY qu-borderAll qu-borderColor--darken qu-borderRadius--circle BadgeWrapper___StyledAbsolute-kazm88-0 bgqkju">Krishna: There is no evidence for soul in the first place, according to science and scientists.</div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 epLMHk" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>It is a religion based belief. What people give as answers to this question is also based on blind belief. If people can imagine things like souls, they can also imagine various ways it can enter a womb and can give you several imaginative answers.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Just enjoy these stories but try to distinguish between a myth and reality.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span><iframe width="475" height="267" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Za5LeUFL5Tc?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
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<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>----</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Q: </span>Can you choose not to reincarnate?</p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Krishna: There is no need to worry. Nobody will reincarnate in the first place, there is no genuine evidence to say that it takes place.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>There is no evidence of soul, according to science, in the first place.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Without a soul, you cannot reincarnate.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>So you cannot reincarnate, whether you choose to or choose not to.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Just because people believe in something it doesn’t happen.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Fiction doesn’t become facts. Stories are stories, not reality.</span></p>
</div> Q: Is Atma equal to energy in…tag:kkartlab.in,2020-04-03:2816864:Comment:1604912020-04-03T04:38:16.383ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
<div class="story_title_container"><div class="pass_color_to_child_links"><div id="wOwGgUbQ24"><a class="question_link" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ25_link" name="__w2_wOwGgUbQ25_link" target="_top"><span class="ui_content_title ui_content_title--default ui_content_title--medium"><span class="ui_qtext_rendered_qtext">Q: Is Atma equal to energy in science?…</span></span></a></div>
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<div class="Answer" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ11_answer"><div id="wOwGgUbQ19"><div class="AnswerHeader ContentHeader"><div class="ui_layout_photo_text u-flex ui_layout_size--small"><div class="ui_layout_photo_wrapper u-flex-none"><div class="ui_layout_photo u-relative"><div class="u-flex-inline" id="wOwGgUbQ30"><span class="photo_tooltip u-inline" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ50_link"><a class="u-flex-inline" href="https://www.quora.com/profile/Krishna-KumariChalla"></a></span></div>
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<div class="ui_layout_text u-flex-auto u-width--100 u-flex-align-self--center"><div class="u-flex u-flex-justify--between"><div class="u-margin-right--sm u-width--100"><div class="feed_item_answer_user"><span id="wOwGgUbQ32"><span id="wOwGgUbQ46"><span id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ47_link"><a class="user" href="https://www.quora.com/profile/Krishna-KumariChalla" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ47_name_link" name="__w2_wOwGgUbQ47_name_link">Krishna KumariChalla : </a></span></span></span></div>
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<div class="inline_editor_content suggestions_editor_content" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ23_content"><div id="wOwGgUbQ27"><div class="feed_item_answer answer_text expanded_feed_content expanded_q_text" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ35_content"><div class="feed_item_answer_content answer_content"><div class="answer_body_preview"><div class="ExpandedContent ExpandedAnswer" id="__w2_wOwGgUbQ38_expanded_content"><div id="wOwGgUbQ39"><div class="OriginallyAnsweredBanner">Originally Answered:<span> </span><span class="ui_content_title unstyled_ui_title"><span class="ui_qtext_rendered_qtext">Is atma equal to energy in science?</span></span><span class="bullet"> · </span></div>
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<div class="u-serif-font-main--regular"><div class="ui_qtext_expanded"><p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">NO!</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">Atma or soul is an imaginary thing. There is no evidence that it exists:<span> </span><span class="qlink_container"><a href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank" class="external_link">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">You can scientifically show that energy exists.<span> </span><b>Energy</b><span> </span>exists in many different forms.<span> </span><b>Examples</b><span> </span>of these are: light<span> </span><b>energy</b>, heat<span> </span><b>energy</b>, mechanical<span> </span><b>energy</b>, gravitational<span> </span><b>energy</b>, electrical<span> </span><b>energy</b>, sound<span> </span><b>energy</b>, chemical<span> </span><b>energy</b>, nuclear or atomic<span> </span><b>energy</b><span> </span>and so on. You can see light. you can drive a car using mechanical energy or electrical energy. You can produce nuclear energy.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">How can you equate the imaginary soul with with a thing that has evidence for and can be used successfully?</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">Oh, yes, people say a soul can neither be created nor destroyed like energy. But where is the evidence?</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">"Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed but changes form" is an observed law.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">"Soul is not destructive" is an imagination.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">Please follow the space<span> </span><span class="qlink_container"><a href="https://www.quora.com/q/zehldtubcxtgkqwk">Science Communication</a></span><span> </span>on quora for genuine science information</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">Edit: I was asked to read Dr. Sam Parnia’s work. I did!</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">And this is what I got…<span class="qlink_container"><a href="https://skeptiko.com/sam-parnia-claims-near-death-experience-probably-an-illusion/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank" class="external_link">Dr. Sam Parnia Claims Near Death Experience Probably an Illusion</a></span></p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">So?!</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start">And this is how genuine science explains it:<span> </span><span class="qlink_container"><a href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/how-science-explains-near-death-experiences" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank" class="external_link">How Genuine Science Explains Near Death Experiences</a></span></p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start"><span class="qlink_container">--</span></p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para u-ltr u-text-align--start"><span class="qlink_container">Q: </span>What do you think? Can science be successful to control the soul of humans?</p>
<div class="q-box qu-mb--small"><div class="q-box spacing_log_answer_header"><div class="q-flex"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none qu-mr--small qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none"><div class="q-inlineFlex"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-overflow--hidden qu-borderRadius--circle"><div class="q-absolute qu-fullX qu-fullY qu-borderAll qu-borderColor--darken qu-borderRadius--circle BadgeWrapper___StyledAbsolute-kazm88-0 bgqkju">Krishna: Science doesn’t recognize souls because there is no evidence!</div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 roKEj" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>If You can imagine souls , you can imagine anything about them. So go ahead and imagine, science can control souls and also it can’t. Nothing can be changed with your imagination and thinking.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>2557</span></p>
<div class="q-box qu-mb--medium qu-mt--small"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--xlarge qu-bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks qu-lineHeight--regular"><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 ecTuoX"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row"><div class="q-inline qu-flexWrap--wrap"><div class="q-text puppeteer_test_question_title"><span class="q-box qu-userSelect--text"><span>Q: Why can't science discover the soul yet?</span></span></div>
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<div class="q-absolute qu-fullX qu-fullY qu-borderAll qu-borderColor--darken qu-borderRadius--circle BadgeWrapper___StyledAbsolute-kazm88-0 bgqkju">Krishna: Yes, why can’t?</div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Because soul exists only in peoples’ imagination. How can anything be discovered if it doesn’t exist in the physical world?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>You imagine something - okay that is the only way before the scientific era to understand a few things - and ask science and scientists to prove your imagination is correct. How is that possible?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Even then science and scientists tried but couldn’t find any evidence whatsoever for the existence of soul. Read how by clicking on this link :</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 epLMHk" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Science couldn’t discover soul because it doesn’t exist in reality! Pure and simple.</span></p>
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<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>John Wesley’s sermon “The Imperfections of Human Knowledge” published in 1771:<br/>“Well; but if we know nothing else, do not we know ourselves? our bodies and our souls? What is our soul? It is a spirit, we know. But what is a spirit? Here we are at a full stop. And where is the soul lodged? in the pineal gland, in the whole brain, in the heart, in the blood, in any single part of the body, or (if any one can understand those terms) ‘all in all, and all in every part?’ How is the soul united to the body? a spirit to a clod? What is the secret, imperceptible chain that couples them together? Can the wisest of men give a satisfactory answer to any one of these plain questions?” — (The Works of John Wesley, vol.6, p. 343)</span></p>
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</div> Q: Is Atma equal to energy in…tag:kkartlab.in,2020-04-03:2816864:Comment:1605782020-04-03T04:36:06.633ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
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<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 hoOKBo"><div class="q-text qu-bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks TitleText___StyledText-sc-1hpb63h-0 kfJcxX"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Inline-sc-12j253u-0 fixERm"><span class="_base___StyledSpan-sc-1kk7hpy-0 iXGUkO rendered_qtext">Q: Is Atma equal to energy in science?</span></div>
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<div class="q-box qu-mt--small qu-mb--small"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 cyUdtN spacing_log_answer_header"><div class="q-flex"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none qu-mr--small"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none"><div class="CssComponent-sc-1oskqb9-0 BadgeWrapper___StyledCssComponent-kazm88-0 iiKwSy"><div class="q-inlineFlex"><div class="q-inlineFlex inner_inline_flex qu-overflow--hidden qu-borderRadius--circle"></div>
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<div class="q-box qu-alignSelf--center qu-flex--auto"><div class="q-text qu-color--gray_light qu-fontSize--small qu-passColorToLinks"><span><span class="Box-sc-9env3-0 AbstractSeparatedItems___StyledBox-sc-46kfvf-0 chidNU"><span class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 cYScOC"><a target="_top" href="https://www.quora.com/profile/Raziman-T-V" class="Box-sc-9env3-0 bwlzOL">Raziman T.V.</a></span>, <span class="Box-sc-9env3-0 cyUdtN">Anti-pseudoscience: </span></span></span>No.</div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Please do not conflate religious/philosophical ideas and scientific ones.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box qu-p--0 qu-bg--gray"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Energy</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-mWiyE" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#mWiyE">[1]</a><span> in physics is a very precise concept. In particular:</span></p>
<ul class="q-box">
<li><span>Whenever physicists, chemists, biologists or engineers talk about energy, they are talking about the same thing (Do you have any idea how hard it is to get physicists and biologists to agree on something?)</span></li>
<li><span>It is a quantitative property. When a physicist says that potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy, they are not simply making a qualitative, hand-wavy statement. They can use equipment to measure the energy changes involved and show equality. And when they make the quantitative comparison and things don’t match, scientists get seriously bothered. The prediction of neutrino</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-ROBnw" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#ROBnw">[2]</a><span> came out of the need to conserve energy (and other quantities).</span></li>
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<hr class="q-box qu-p--0 qu-bg--gray"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>So how does this compare to </span><span>Atma</span><span>?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Atma</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-gQgCc" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#gQgCc">[3]</a><span> is the Hindu philosophical concept of the soul (similar concepts exist in other Indic religions). It permeates all creatures, and is eternal. In the cycle of rebirths, the soul sheds one body with death like cloth and wears another. Liberation is finally attained when one realises that the self is identical to the divine (</span><span>Brahman</span><span>). I am not an expert in Hindu philosophy, so please correct me if I am wrong.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>So, the way I see it, the Hindu concept of </span><span>Atma</span><span> is definitely an intriguing philosophy and theological foundation. But as a scientist, I cannot see how it matches the scientific concept of energy at all.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box qu-p--0 qu-bg--gray"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>The top answer on this page, receiving thousands of upvotes, claims that atma is equivalent to energy by making the comparison with cellular respiration. The chemical storage of energy in Adenosine triphosphate (ATP)</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-UHHnB" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#UHHnB">[4]</a><span> is equated to atma.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Of course, this brings up many issues</span></p>
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<li><span>ATP is an important biomolecule, but it can stay outside the body too. For example, we have managed to synthesise it artificially.</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-xWoRl" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#xWoRl">[5]</a><span> Given that the chemical can be found and created outside the body, does it mean that these artificial systems have </span><span>atma</span><span> too?</span></li>
<li><span>Even after death, the body continues to produce ATP for a while.</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-mwBVV" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#mwBVV">[6]</a><span> As a molecule, it can remain in the body. How does this match with the concept of the soul leaving the body with death?</span></li>
<li><span>If </span><span>atma</span><span> is energy in general and not the kind of chemical energy stored in ATP, why is it only found in living objects?</span></li>
<li><span>On the other hand, if </span><span>atma</span><span> is the kind of “life energy” the answer claims to be limited to living beings, it can be created and destroyed. How does it match the concept of the eternality of </span><span>atma</span><span>?</span></li>
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<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>The rest of the top answer is similarly about stretching the meaning of verses in scripture to make comparisons with energy. But that is not how science operates. You have to come up with falsifiable predictions which can be used to test the validity. If the tests come up wrong, you have to discard or modify your theory. And of course, your theory has to be consistent. What I see in the </span><span>atma</span><span>-energy comparisons are simply scriptural gymnastics with a lot of holes, with no scientific rigour or predictive power.</span></p>
<hr class="q-box qu-p--0 qu-bg--gray"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Finally, it is my opinion that making such comparisons degrades the beauty of the philosophical concept itself.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>What I see in the philosophy of </span><span>atma</span><span> is the concept of the unity of all life. Every living thing of the past, present and future are one. All of life is you and me. This has theological implications and affects the way we act. By trying to tie it up with the scientific statement that all life is based on the same chemicals, isn’t the beauty of the philosophy lost?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Similarly, by claiming that the Advaita Vedanta statement of the unity of </span><span>Atma</span><span> and </span><span>Brahma</span><span> is just the scientific concept of equivalence of forms of energy, haven’t you lost all the depth of the philosophy?</span></p>
<hr class="q-box qu-p--0 qu-bg--gray"/><p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Please do not debase your religion and philosophy by trying to make them match scientific concepts. But if you insist, we have high standards. Make a consistent, predictive theory that is falsifiable and not merely explanatory. And when you are talking about something like energy, you better be quantitative. Trying to claim some sort of scientific support for vitalism</span><a class="q-text qu-fontSize--tiny qu-verticalAlign--super" id="cite-haASL" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#haASL">[7]</a><span> is not going to work in the 21st century.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-mb--0 qu-display--inline"><span>PS</span><span>: My answers countering stretching of scripture to match scientific concepts and other pseudoscience are aggregated </span><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" title="www.quora.com" target="_top" href="https://www.quora.com/q/vyvgrasvkixhrxzj/Pseudoscience">here</a><span>.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-bold qu-pb--small">Footnotes</p>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="mWiyE"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-mWiyE">[1]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy">Energy - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="ROBnw"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-ROBnw">[2]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino">Neutrino - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="gQgCc"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-gQgCc">[3]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)">Ātman (Hinduism) - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="UHHnB"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-UHHnB">[4]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate">Adenosine triphosphate - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="xWoRl"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-xWoRl">[5]<span> </span></a><a href="https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/nl051896e">Artificial Organelle: ATP Synthesis from Cellular Mimetic Polymersomes</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="mwBVV"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-mwBVV">[6]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis">Rigor mortis - Wikipedia</a></div>
<div class="q-text qu-mb--small" id="haASL"><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V#cite-haASL">[7]<span> </span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism">Vitalism - Wikipedia</a></div>
</div> What is the relation between…tag:kkartlab.in,2020-03-03:2816864:Comment:1603562020-03-03T06:43:09.512ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
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<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 hoOKBo"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 Text___StyledText-jjrgda-1 erShEO"><a class="Box-sc-9env3-0 eZSsnB" href="https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relation-between-Energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-be-destroyed-but-changes-form-and-Soul-is-not-destructive" target="_top"><span class="_base___StyledSpan-sc-1kk7hpy-0 iXGUkO rendered_qtext">What is the relation between "Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed but changes form" and "Soul is not…</span></a></div>
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<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 hoOKBo"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 Text___StyledText-jjrgda-1 erShEO"><a target="_top" href="https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relation-between-Energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-be-destroyed-but-changes-form-and-Soul-is-not-destructive" class="Box-sc-9env3-0 eZSsnB"><span class="_base___StyledSpan-sc-1kk7hpy-0 iXGUkO rendered_qtext">What is the relation between "Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed but changes form" and "Soul is not destructive"?</span></a></div>
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<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>Krishna:There is no relationship.</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>"Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed but changes form" </span><span>is an observed law.</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>"Soul is not destructive"? </span><span>is an imagination.</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Inline-sc-12j253u-0 frnsLG"><a rel="ugc noopener nofollow" title="kkartlab.in" target="_blank" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" class="Box-sc-9env3-0 eZSsnB">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv lastPara"><span>If you try to connect genuine science with evidence-less-imagination, it becomes pseudo-science.</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv lastPara"><span>Q: </span>Is atma equal to energy in science?</p>
<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 iyrxUZ"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 cyUdtN spacing_log_answer_header"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Flex-sc-12j253u-2 fnoHvq"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Flex-sc-12j253u-2 display__InlineFlex-sc-12j253u-3 iuPapK"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Flex-sc-12j253u-2 display__InlineFlex-sc-12j253u-3 kviMiY Box-sc-9env3-0 position__PositionBase-xruywh-0 position__Relative-xruywh-2 gIeyrn"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Flex-sc-12j253u-2 display__InlineFlex-sc-12j253u-3 jTifTw"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Flex-sc-12j253u-2 display__InlineFlex-sc-12j253u-3 BadgeWrapper___StyledInlineFlex-kazm88-0 hWdYmv"></div>
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<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 ContentAuthorHeader___StyledBox-j1xagp-0 bVAlkm"><div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 lhZNAg"><a target="_top" href="https://www.quora.com/Is-atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Krishna-KumariChalla" class="Box-sc-9env3-0 eZSsnB"></a>Krishna: NO!</div>
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<div class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 cYScOC"><p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>Atma or soul is an imaginary thing. There is no evidence that it exists: </span><span class="Box-sc-9env3-0 display__Inline-sc-12j253u-0 frnsLG"><a rel="ugc noopener nofollow" title="kkartlab.in" target="_blank" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" class="Box-sc-9env3-0 eZSsnB">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>You can scientifically show that energy exists. </span><span>Energy</span><span> exists in many different forms. </span><span>Examples</span><span> of these are: light </span><span>energy</span><span>, heat </span><span>energy</span><span>, mechanical </span><span>energy</span><span>, gravitational </span><span>energy</span><span>, electrical </span><span>energy</span><span>, sound </span><span>energy</span><span>, chemical </span><span>energy</span><span>, nuclear or atomic </span><span>energy</span><span> and so on. You can see light. you can drive a car using mechanical energy or electrical energy. You can produce nuclear energy.</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv"><span>How can you equate the imaginary soul with with a thing that has evidence for and can be used successfully?</span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv lastPara"><span>Oh, yes, people say a soul can neither be created nor destroyed like energy. But where is the evidence?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>Edit: I was asked to read Dr. Sam Parnia’s work. I did!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>And this is what I got…</span><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" title="skeptiko.com" target="_blank" href="https://skeptiko.com/sam-parnia-claims-near-death-experience-probably-an-illusion/">Dr. Sam Parnia Claims Near Death Experience Probably an Illusion</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block"><span>So?!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-mb--0 qu-display--inline"><span>And this is how genuine science explains it: </span><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" title="kkartlab.in" target="_blank" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/how-science-explains-near-death-experiences">How Genuine Science Explains Near Death Experiences</a></span></p>
<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv lastPara"><span>1705</span></p>
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<p class="Box-sc-9env3-0 Text-jjrgda-0 QTextPara___StyledText-anoo6m-0 kvqEEv lastPara"><span><a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raziman-T-V">https://www.quora.com/Is-Atma-equal-to-energy-in-science/answer/Raz...</a></span></p>
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<div class="q-box qu-mb--medium qu-mt--small"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--xlarge qu-bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks qu-lineHeight--regular qu-wordBreak--break-word"><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 ecTuoX"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row"><div class="q-inline qu-flexWrap--wrap"><div class="q-text puppeteer_test_question_title"><span class="q-box qu-userSelect--text"><span>Q: why didn't the LHC detect the soul?</span></span></div>
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<div class="q-box qu-mb--small"><div class="q-box spacing_log_answer_header"><div class="q-flex"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none qu-mr--small qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-flex--none"><div class="q-inlineFlex"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-overflow--hidden qu-borderRadius--circle"><div class="q-absolute qu-fullX qu-fullY qu-borderAll qu-borderColor--darken qu-borderRadius--circle BadgeWrapper___StyledAbsolute-kazm88-0 bgqkju"></div>
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<div class="q-box qu-alignSelf--center qu-flex--auto"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--regular qu-truncateLines--3 qu-passColorToLinks"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-alignItems--center"><span>Krishna: </span> If you ask people who believe in souls they say some things are beyond science’s comprehension and therefore, can’t be found by science.</div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>You can say several things without providing genuine evidence in the belief realm. Those who want to believe it will believe it anyway.</span></p>
<blockquote class="q-relative qu-color--gray qu-borderWidth--retinaOverride"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Brian Cox, the physicist, says (1), “If we want some sort of pattern that carries information about our living cells to persist then we must specify precisely what medium carries that pattern and how it interacts with the matter particles out of which our bodies are made. We must, in other words, invent an extension to the Standard Model of Particle Physics that has escaped detection at the Large Hadron Collider. That's almost inconceivable at the energy scales typical of the particle interactions in our bodies”.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>He further adds, “I would say if there's some kind of substance that's driving our bodies, making my arms move and legs move, then it must interact with the particles out of which our bodies are made. And seeing as we've made high precision measurements of the ways that particles interact, then my assertion is there can be no such thing as an energy source that's driving our bodies.”</span></p>
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<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>We had a detailed discussion on this. You can read the whole thing here:</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 epLMHk" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Footnotes:</span></p>
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<li class="q-relative"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 epLMHk" title="www.livescience.com" href="https://www.livescience.com/57973-has-large-hadron-collider-disproved-existence-of-ghosts.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Has the Large Hadron Collider Disproved the Existence of Ghosts?</a></span></li>
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<div class="q-box qu-mb--medium qu-mt--small"><div class="q-flex qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-box"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--xlarge qu-fontWeight--bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks qu-lineHeight--regular qu-wordBreak--break-word"><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 daLTSH"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row"><div class="q-inline qu-flexWrap--wrap"><div class="q-text puppeteer_test_question_title"><span class="q-box qu-userSelect--text"><span>Q: What happens to our past life lovers when we reincarnate?</span></span></div>
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<div class="q-box qu-flex--auto"><div class="q-box"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-alignItems--center"><div class="q-inlineFlex qu-alignItems--center qu-wordBreak--break-word"><span>Krishna:</span></div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>There is no scientific evidence for souls and reincarnation.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 gOCLNQ puppeteer_test_link qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Imaginative things can have as many scenarios as people can imagine. People tell several stories to this question based on these imaginations.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Imaginative stories attract people more than realistic answers like mine.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>So let me tell you some of mine using my imagination for fun:</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Your past lovers might too reincarnate and become your lovers again like they show in Indian movies! It seems they usually reincarnate seven times in seven births! Hmmm!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Some of them become ‘ghosts’ and follow you where ever you go!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Some of them marry others but remember their past births and leave them and come back to you!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Some of them leave their whole families after rebirth because they remember their bond with you in the ‘earlier birth’.</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>They might take revenge on you if you marry another woman in this birth!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>They might kidnap your common children!</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Is this enough? Or need more? :)</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span><a href="https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-our-past-life-lovers-when-we-reincarnate/answer/Krishna-KumariChalla?prompt_topic_bio=1" target="_blank">https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-our-past-life-lovers-when-we-reincarnate/answer/Krishna-KumariChalla?prompt_topic_bio=1</a></span></p>
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Q: It is said…tag:kkartlab.in,2017-01-14:2816864:Comment:1440802017-01-14T06:42:36.824ZDr. Krishna Kumari Challahttps://kkartlab.in/profile/DrKrishnaKumariChalla
<p>2843…</p>
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<div id="wVJdqlmZ4">Q: It is said that matter cannot be destroyed. So what happens to your soul when you die?</div>
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<div id="wVJdqlmZ8"><div class="AnswerPageAnswer Answer AnswerBase" id="__w2_wVJdqlmZ9_answer"><div id="__w2_wVJdqlmZ9_answer_content"><div id="wVJdqlmZ49"><div class="inline_editor_content" id="__w2_wVJdqlmZ50_content"><div class="ExpandedAnswer ExpandedContent" id="__w2_wVJdqlmZ55_expanded_content"><div class="TranslatedAnswerBanner">Krishna: The first law of thermodynamics doesn't actually specify that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead that the total amount of energy in a closed system cannot be created nor destroyed (though it can be changed from one form to another). It was after nuclear physics told us that mass and energy are essentially equivalent - this is what Einstein meant when he wrote E= mc^2 - that we realized the 1st law of thermodynamics also applied to mass. Mass became another form of energy that had to be included in a thorough thermodynamic treatment of a system.</div>
<div class="u-serif-font-main--regular"><div class="ui_qtext_expanded"><p class="ui_qtext_para">According to science there is no evidence of souls. If it is ‘matter’ , it would have been existed in some measurable entity. Scientists tried but couldn’t find any measurable thing that went out of a dead body or during death - neither matter, nor energy.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para">Therefore, what ever people say about souls is just imaginative and creative stories that originated when science didn’t develop to explain things and provide evidence through scientific methods.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para"><span class="qlink_container"><a href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank" class="external_link">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para">Therefore if you ask such Qs, the answers you get too are imaginative and creative stories that don’t deal with facts and reality based on evidence.</p>
<p class="ui_qtext_para"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></p>
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<div class="q-box qu-mb--medium qu-mt--small"><div class="q-text qu-dynamicFontSize--xlarge qu-bold qu-color--gray_dark_dim qu-passColorToLinks qu-lineHeight--regular qu-wordBreak--break-word"><div class="q-click-wrapper qu-display--block qu-tapHighlight--white qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline ClickWrapper___StyledClickWrapperBox-zoqi4f-0 ecTuoX"><div class="q-flex qu-flexDirection--row"><div class="q-inline qu-flexWrap--wrap"><div class="q-text puppeteer_test_question_title"><span class="q-box qu-userSelect--text"><span>Q: Where is the soul, and when can a person feel it?</span></span></div>
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<div class="q-text"><p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span class="q-inline"><a class="q-box qu-cursor--pointer qu-hover--textDecoration--underline Link___StyledBox-t2xg9c-0 epLMHk" title="kkartlab.in" href="https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/soul-what-is-it-according-to-science" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">Soul?! What is it according to science and scientists?</a></span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>Then you asked ‘when can a person feel it’?</span></p>
<p class="q-text qu-display--block qu-wordBreak--break-word qu-textAlign--start"><span>If you imagine something exists, you can can also have ‘imaginative feeling’ about it whenever you want it!</span></p>
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